Thursday, August 22, 2019

By permission
conversation with John Auerbach regarding the so-called dollar tree story. In that story, a glow stick has to be broken to glow, and the analogy applied to humans.

John Auerbach writes
Perhaps it is my Jewishness, or perhaps it is the remnants of my adolescent Nietzscheanism, but I really question the theology advocated in the Dollar Tree story: "There are some people who will be content just "being" but some of us that God has chosen, we have to be ‘broken'. We have to get sick. We have to lose a job. We go through divorce. We have to bury our spouse, parents, best friend, or our child because, in those moments of desperation, God is breaking us but when the breaking is done, then we will be able to see the reason for which we were created.. so when you see us glowing just know that we have been broken but healed by his Grace and Mercy!!!”  Really?, I ask.  God is breaking us to heal us?  I hope at least someone else on the listserve besides me has a few questions about this perspective.

As for Paul Tillich, he was most definitely one of the great theologians, and The Courage to Be is undoubtedly a great book.  But the ideal religion is Protestant Principle (freedom) and Catholic Substance?  Let us leave us aside the Western bias of this statement from a great thinker, such that no Eastern religions matter, even though Eastern religions had been influencing advanced Western thought since the mid-19th Century (e.g., Emerson, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Freud).  And let us in all fairness note that Paul Tillich, having had to flee the Nazis on account of his socialist views, was among the least antisemitic of great Christian theologians whose origins were prior to the Shoah and that he understood the Jewish prophetic tradition as essential to Christian ethics, not to mention to his socialism.  But, really, no Judaism in his formulation?  By his later years, Tillich had had many encounters with Jews and Judaism. But still one wonders how a brilliant man who was unwilling to collaborate with a Nazi regime could come up with a formulation as tone deaf as this one appears to non-Christian readers. Yes, I know Christian-Jewish reconciliation was still in its infancy, even in the 1960s, but this is the formulation he came up with?



Jo
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Damon writes


I am ambivalent about the idea that being broken potentiates an individual. My unscientific assumption is that hardship--say combat, damages some, improves a few, and leaves most people unchanged. During my first year of graduate school, I wrote to my undergraduate advisor, carping about the inadequacies and depravations of graduate student life. Louis Lipsitt was a child psychologist. He wrote back a detailed letter about his recent research with neonates, and the finding that some stress seems to correlate with later achievement. "A little stress might be good for you," I recall him writing. Truly, the ego does grow by overcoming difficulties.  They have to be manageable difficulties.

Was there a meme of books midcentury books title a "Man's Search for .....". That existentially themes title contains the implicit idea that life is not complete without some revelatory discovery. It has work ethic built-in. What about a  counter notion, possibly more relevant today, that searches for answers, especially if ideologically driven, tend to create havoc. Best to simple emphasize basic human connections that create cohesion rather than division.  Most efforts to find personal meaning, unless highly disciplined, tend to create divisive conflict with someone else's found and championed meaning. "

Growing up Catholic, I enjoyed the rituals and bows and smells and sprinklings. I really had no idea what they were talking about. The medieval theatricality of the mass was for me the saving grace. 



Damon


Sunday, August 18, 2019


Thoughts by Dr. Gregory Declue on a listserve in response to a question I posed regarding the best way to address climate change at a persona level,  reproduced with his permission--DL, 08082019

Aug 18 at 10:42 AM



Damon wrote, in part

Also, Greg, how would you prioritize personal changes. What change in behavior gives the biggest payback. Altering transportation patterns

There’s a little bit of “that depends,” but it’s possible to identify a few major areas where personal choices make a substantial difference.  I’ll provide a little bit of nuance, as I understand it.

This site


points to “Greenhouse Gas Emissions by Sector.”

1. Power Generation.  The leading contributor of greenhouse gas production in the US is the production of electricity. Electricity in this country is largely produced by burning fossil fuels (nonrenewable energy sources such as oil, coal, and natural gas). Of all the greenhouse gas emissions, 30% comes from the electricity sector. This sector emits mainly carbon dioxide but does produce methane and nitrous oxide as well. Burning coal accounts for 39% of the electricity generated in the US, and coal burning is a carbon-intensive process. Natural gas produces 27% of electricity and leads to more methane production than coal. Emissions from electricity production have increased by 12% since 1990.

My own approach to this has been to install solar panels at my home.  We produce more electricity than we use, so we do not contribute anything to greenhouse gases when we use our heating or air conditioning, vacuum cleaner, etc.  It helps that when it came time to replace our heat pump (heat and A/C) we installed a geothermal heat-exchange system, which costs more up front but is more efficient.  Basically, the less efficient your home is (heating and cooling devices, insulation, …) the fewer solar panels you would need to cleanly produce enough electricity to meet your needs.  

2. Transport.  The second largest greenhouse gas contributor is the transportation sector which accounts for 26% of all emissions. Transportation includes planes, trains, automobiles, buses, trucks, and ships. The biggest problem with transportation is its reliance on fossil fuels which produce mainly carbon dioxide. More than half of the transportation industry’s emissions come from private vehicles.

I use an electric car and an electric motorcycle (not at the same time!).  I have a 310-mile range on my Tesla Model 3, so for most trips I’m using my own solar-generated electricity.  If I drive across the state and back, I would typically make it to my destination without refueling, and then stop at a Tesla Supercharger and charge for around 15 to 20 minutes on my way home.  The car keeps track of how full the battery is, when I need to refuel, where are the conveniently located charging stations, and whether there is any wait time to plug in (there never has been for me so far).  It’s very easy, extremely efficient, and electric cars are the safest cars in the world.  See a nuanced view regarding safety claims at 

We produce enough solar power to power the car, motorcycle, and professional-grade electric tools such as lawn mower, chainsaw, etc. to maintain our wooded 5-acre lot.

3. Manufacturing.  Industry, or manufacturing, contributes 21% of emissions. Raw goods and finished products contribute directly, or on-site, and indirectly, or off-site. Indirect emissions come from the factory’s demand for electricity which is produced off-site and by burning fossil fuels. Industry contributes directly by burning fossil fuels for energy. Chemical reactions occur in order to produce metals, cement, and chemicals. Some uncontrolled leaks are also released during production activities.

My own approach to this is to keep in mind that, the more stuff I buy, the more greenhouse emissions I’ve caused to happen.  Generally, if you don’t need something, you can choose to not buy it.  Or consider buying a used product.  Or a recycled product when that’s an option.  Of course, use re-usable stuff like shopping bags, and recycle whatever your local recycler will recycle.

4. Homes and Businesses.  Commercial and residential emissions make up 12% of greenhouse gases in the US. These are produced by business and people for heating, cooking, and waste management. Air conditioning systems also contribute to refrigerant pollutants, or fluorinated gases. The natural gas and petroleum used for heating and cooking emit carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, and methane. Waste that is sent to landfills emits methane when decomposing and wastewater (sewage) treatment facilities emit methane and nitrous oxide.

As I mentioned above, we use solar panels to produce electricity, which we use to power our home.  We also use Tesla Powerwalls (whole-home batteries), so that we can store excess solar energy during the day, and then use it at night.  

We have a well and a septic system, so we use our own groundwater and we mostly return our waste to the ground.  There’s a service to pump the septic tank when needed.  (I don’t think that tap water and wastewater are big contributors to climate disruption, so this would likely be low on the list of personal priorities.)

—> I received federal tax credits amounting to 30% of my renewable energy systems, including but not limited to the solar panels.  That applies for systems installed through the end of 2019.  Last I checked, the federal subsidy is scheduled to reduce to 26% for systems installed in 2020; and 22% in 2021.  Last I checked, there is no federal subsidy for solar energy systems installed in 2022 and beyond.  

Meanwhile, “The IMF [International Monetary Fund] found that direct and indirect subsidies for coal, oil and gas in the U.S. reached $649 billion in 2015. … In comparison to another important, but less well-funded part of the federal budget, fossil fuel subsidies were nearly 10 times what Congress spent on education.  Broken down to an individual level, fossil fuel subsidies cost every man, woman and child in the United States $2,028 that year.”  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fossil-fuel-subsidies-pentagon-spending-imf-report-833035/ 

Of course, our elected officials make choices about what to subsidize, and we decide whom to elect.

5. Agriculture.  The final contributor to greenhouse gas emissions in the US is the agricultural sector which is responsible for 9% of the total. This industry raises livestock on factory farms and produces food for human and animal consumption. Nitrogen is added to soil as a fertilizer which results in nitrous oxide emissions and livestock waste produces methane gases in large quantities.  (That’s according to the website for which I provided a link, above.)

This is one area where, as I understand it, the answer to Damon’s question includes “it depends.”  Consider this analysis, from this source:


Food’s carbon footprint, or foodprint, is the greenhouse gas emissions produced by growing, rearing, farming, processing, transporting, storing, cooking and disposing of the food you eat.  In the US, each household produces 48 tons of greenhouse gases. Transport, housing and food have the three largest carbon footprints. Food produces about 8 tons of emissions per household, or about 17% of the total. Worldwide, new reports suggest that livestock agriculture produces around a half of all man-made emissions.

I think that that site (greeneatz) comes up with 17% for food, rather than 9%, because it is considering greenhouse gases produced during transportating food and at warehouses and grocery stores, along with the greenhouse gases used to produce (grow) the food.

A website I mentioned before, this one


provides some specific tips for personally reducing greenhouse gases associated with food, including, “The carbon print of a vegetarian diet is about half that of a meat-lover’s diet.”  Also, cooking at home — and eating some raw foods at home — reduces energy consumption and provides an opportunity to limit food waste.  Organic farming typically uses less energy and less water.

It so happens that, to a remarkable degree, choosing foods that are better for the planet overlaps with choosing foods that are better for your own health.

We almost exclusively eat plants and plant-based foods; and we mostly eat whole foods (including whole grains).  We mostly eat at home, and we mostly buy organic foods.  We grow some food in our aquaponics system, but we mostly eat grocery-store-bought food that we prepare at home.  I like to cook enough to have leftovers for a few days, so on most days it’s as easy to eat a home-prepared meal as it is to eat something that someone else prepared for me.  (And often tastier and more nutritious.)

Meanwhile, according to the Office of the Chief Economist of the United States Department of Agriculture, “In the United States, food waste is estimated at between 30-40 percent of the food supply.” 

The more you eat food that you prepared at home, the more you can control your contribution to food waste, and therefore to unnecessary release of greenhouse gases.


Just in case someone wonders about the relevance of this to a psychology listserve, I encourage folks to read the article for which Stephen sent a link, which notes that psychotherapists are experiencing many of the same stresses that psychotherapy patients are experiencing:

In 1992, I did volunteer mental-health work in south Florida in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew.  My work was mostly providing support and other psychological services to first responders, many of whom were experiencing profound disruption in their own lives and in their family’s lives.  I remember looking at a scene of devastation with one of the local emergency services as that person described seeing not only the current destruction but the devestation to the tax base that supports that local emergency service.  

We’re now experiencing that, and anticipating more of that, on a global scale.  And we know that it is preventable, and we know that many of our leaders are not currently embracing a plan of action that approaches a scale sufficient to address the problems as scientists are identifying them.  I’m convinced that it is essential that humanity, including the USA, implement plans as encompassing as the framework in the Green New Deal.

With Douglas Adams in mind, imagine hanging a sign outside your office that reads, “The Psychotherapist at the End of the World.”


Meet the Green New Deal

The Green New Deal starts with a WWII-type mobilization to address the grave threat posed by climate change, transitioning our country to 100% clean energy by 2030. Clean energy does not include natural gas, biomass, nuclear power or the oxymoron “clean coal.”
The implementation of the Green New Deal will revive the economy, turn the tide on climate change and make wars for oil obsolete. This latter result, in turn, enables a 50% cut in the military budget, since maintaining bases all over the world to safeguard fossil fuel supplies and routes of transportation could no longer be justified. That military savings of several hundred billion dollars per year would go a very long way toward creating green jobs at home.
On top of that, the Green New Deal largely pays for itself in healthcare savings from the prevention of fossil fuel-related diseases, including asthma, heart attacks, strokes and cancer.
Moving to 100% clean energy means many more jobs, a healthier environment and far lower electric costs compared to continued reliance upon fossil fuels. Studies have shown that the technology already exists to achieve 100% clean energy by 2030. And we can speed up the transition by making polluters pay for the damage they’ve caused, starting with a robust carbon fee program.
The Green New Deal is not only a major step towards ending unemployment for good, but also a tool to fight the corporate takeover of our democracy and exploitation of the poor and people of color. Our transition to 100% clean energy will be based on community, worker and public ownership and democratic control of our energy system, rather than maximizing profits for energy corporations, banks and hedge funds.
--

Obviously, I think that all humans should make personal choices that contribute to humans living sustainably on this planet.  

Meanwhile, there is a need for psychotherapists to understand anthropogenic climate change and what can be done about it.  That’s necessary for us to properly diagnose and treat psychotherapy patients seeking help with managing stress and anxiety.  One way to apply such understanding comes when we help psychotherapy patients who ask for help in applying something along the lines of Reinhold Niebuhr’s prayer, 

“Lord, grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Best,
Greg



Gregory DeClue, Ph.D., ABPP (forensic)
16443 Winburn Place
Sarasota, FL  34240-9228
phone 941-951-6674
gregdeclue@me.com
http://gregdeclue.myakkatech.com


On Aug 17, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Damon LaBarbera 

Does the APA prioritize that issue? Or rather, where does that issue officially fall on the list of a good psychologists professional awareness. 

What are the ingredients for generating the sea change of opinion and energy? A thought experiment is to imagine those projects that have fostered a united effort--the moon project, the first and second world wars, the eradication of smallpox, overturning the Copernican worldview, the research for managing HIV. The commonality I see is they all involved a few charismatic stalwarts with enormous energy who persisted despite general apathy. Possibly that environmentalist hasn't come along yet. 

Also, Greg, how would you prioritize personal changes. What change in behavior gives the biggest payback. Altering transportation patterns? 

Damon

O

Saturday, July 6, 2019

Keith Conners


The late Keith Conners, a Rhodes Scholar, developed the standards for diagnosing ADHD. He also developed the tests, still the most popularly used today, for diagnosing ADHD. Here he explained to me how stimulants were found, serendipitously, to quiet restless patients at Bradley Hospital. He remarked to me before his death that he thought that one of his tests, put out by MHS, needed to be readjusted because it overpredicted ADHD. Jennifer Lish, a clinical psychologist in Massachusetts (Columbia PhD) liked the post. Her dad was Gordan Lish.

Thursday, July 4, 2019

~Psychology Practice in Florida
Veblen coined the term “conspicuous consumption” to describe the behavior of the leisure class. One reason the leisure class does this is to prove that it can, and failure to do so is a sign of shame—an indication that one is cheap or miserly.  I am still waiting to have these problems in life.

John S. Auerbach, PhD

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2019, at 11:35 AM, Damon LaBarbera <00000051867784e1-dmarc-request@listserv.icors.org> wrote:
~Psychology Practice in Florida
As I think about updating technology (e.g. Ivy Pay) in my private practice, I realized that declining reimbursement over the years has been a motivator. As Thorsten Veblen said, 

 "All change in habits of life and of thought is irksome. The difference in this respect between the wealthy and the common run of mankind lies not so much in the motive which prompts to conservatism as in the degree of exposure to the economic forces that urge a change. The members of the wealthy class do not yield to the demand for innovation as readily as other men because they are not constrained to do so."
                                                            Theory of the Leisure Class

Happily, lower insurance reimbursement keeps me fit technologically. 

Another thing is comforting. Veblen argues that enjoying leisure is a mark of status. That is not too likely in this type of work. However, a person also enjoys high status if they have a "surrogate" enjoying leisure. Qualifying examples might be a child who has failed to launch an unemployable spouse, an unmotivated employee, or your own health provider who often takes exotic trips.

This old book is a classic in behavioral economics, though not identified such, being published in 1899. However, his logic is powerful. 


Damon L

Thursday, March 7, 2019

Reflections by Gregory Declue, John Auerbach, Damon LaBarbera




On Mar 1, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Damon LaBarbera wrote



A contrary view would be like that of Adam Smith's in Wealth Of Nations. Individuals pursuing self interest create growth, efficiency, and utility.  This is Smith's "invisible hand". "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."  


From that view, better to vote for a candidate narrowly supportive of our most valued plank, rather than try to benevolently vote for a candidate for the greater good. In the economy of ideas, we will be more efficient at achieving our goals. 


Gregory DeClue write in response


This is in response to


A contrary view would be like that of Adam Smith's in Wealth Of Nations. Individuals pursuing self interest create growth, efficiency, and utility.  This is Smith's "invisible hand". "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."  


Dr. DeClue wrote

“The Tragedy of the Commons argued that global human population was on a path of unsustainable growth through the use of a parable of over-grazing of livestock on common land (Hardin, 1968). The concept of ‘the tragedy of the commons’ largely assumes that individuals are solely motivated by self-interest, an assumotion increasingly at odds with insights across the social sciences (Van Vugt, 2009). The original article, and idea of the tragedy, has had a profound influence on science and policy across all environmental issues. In the five decades since its publication, a concerted scientific response by multiple disciplines, synthesised in Elinor Ostrom (1990), has deepened the analysis of the causes of environmental overexploitation. Such work has documented commons dilemmas and assembled evidence that collective action can be mobilized at various scales to avoid tragedies in population, in overfishing, in resource consumption, and in land degradation. Many argue, however, that global climate change represents the ultimate Hardin-style tragedy: the global commons of the atmosphere cannot realistically be enclosed or effectively managed, and power asymmetries and concentrated benefits from fossil fuel use mean that irreversible thresholds will be crossed before the costs are fully realised (Jamieson, 2014).

“Yet this pervasive framing of climate change as a commons tragedy limits how we confront the climate challenge. Insights from two key areas of political and behavioural sciences are expanding the potential solution space by highlighting how climate change is a dilemma of decision-making and moral values rather than simply a global resource – or global commons – tragedy. First, collective decision-making is as much about managing risks to political systems and their legitimacy, so-called second order risks, as it is about managing the physical and material risks of climate change as documented by science. Second, emerging psychology research demonstrates the range of moral underpinnings that can be mobilised for effective collection action on climate change. These insights shift emphasis away from a commons tragedy to more complex set of governance challenges.”





This is the work for which Elinor Ostrum won the Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences (the first woman so honored).






And here is the pamphlet that laid out the problem in 1968: https://pages.mtu.edu/~asmayer/rural_sustain/governance/Hardin%201968.pdf 




Hardin’s work showed why the “invisible hand” would not protect people and the world from anthropogenic climate disruption; Ostrum showed how the tragedy can be averted; and Brown et al.’s work explores how psychological research can help humans move from maladaptive to adaptive world views and behavior patterns.



Best,

Greg


Damon LaBarbera

Mar 4 at 7:25 PM

I think the Europeans of the day had similarly rigorous ideas of nature. Theirs was not a safe and cuddly natural world. Von Humboldt's contemporary writing exemplified the unsentimentally dangerous aspect of the wild world. We are very sentimental. Think of Goethe's depiction of the forest in Erlenkonig, or in our own day, the depiction of the forest in the movie Witch. Nor was John Muir a particularly sentimental person.


I mentioned in a previous post that there is indeed much cooperation between humans, and much altruistic behavior. But the harmony is more apparent than real. The focussed hostility is to every other species. Exceptions exist--fondness for dogs may be due to the role dogs played in furthering the interests of humans over other species.  The altruism amongst people, refreshing amidst so much discord, does not alter that humans are singularly cruel and destructive to most other species. And those species vie with us in turn, though, in a sense bringing a knife to a gun fight. In any case, the invisible hand that guides our conquest of the wild world yields as much destruction as do the forces of unbridled economic greed and industry.



Alfie Kohn is interesting reading along these lines--discussion of cooperation versus competition in education. 





Thanks



John Auerbach  writes



As far as I understand this, nature has a variety of examples of inter species cooperation, and there are numerous examples of intraspecies competition. Certainly, as any sports fan tell you, these can easily be found among humans. For example, Garrett Hardin’s essay about the tragedy of the commons is about the temptation to create what economists call negative externalities.  



That said, according to the Wikipedia page on Hardin, his ideas on how commons actually work have come under considerable critique. I have not chased down the references to see what I think of the counter arguments.  No doubt these are strong arguments.  But as far as I understand this, however, many American mammals were hunted to extinction by Native Americans long before Europeans, with their notions of private property and their more exploitative attitude toward nature, arrived to hasten the extinction process, so I suspect that managing common resources is very difficult indeed.  



That said, Hardin’s Wikipedia page also says he became an ally of racists and white nationalists:  very disturbing indeed. One can have neomalthusian views above population control, as Hardin did, and not become a racist or a white nationalist, but this appears to have been Hardin’s trajectory in life.

John S. Auerbach, PhD



Sent from my iPhone


 Damon LaBarbera

 "The concept of ‘the tragedy of the commons’ largely assumes that individuals are solely motivated by self-interest, an assumotion increasingly at odds with insights across the social sciences (Van Vugt, 2009). "



No doubt there is much cooperation between people and groups. However, consider that competition occurs between species rather than between humans. E.O. Wilson, amongst others I am sure, makes this point repeatedly. We are ruthless with other animals. Across species, Hardin's argument works.



As you note, collective action might be useful to mobilize resources to combat climate change. My perception is that change has to primarily occur at an individual level--some heightened awareness.  Perhaps one good of marijuana legalization is that it may bring some into a closer connection with nature. (See Double Rainbow video on YouTube)



Question: Are Garrett Hardin's ideas aging well? I think he would run afoul of current controversies on immigration.



Thanks,

Damon



John Auerbach



Agreed on Garrett Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons.  I had not wanted to trot out that particular reference, just because I thought it was too hard to explain briefly, although it is an entirely appropriate reference for the limitations of the Invisible Hand.  






Gregory DeClue, Ph.D., ABPP (forensic)
16443 Winburn Place
Sarasota, FL  34240-9228
phone 941-951-6674
gregdeclue@me.com
http://gregdeclue.myakkatech.com



On Friday, March 1, 2019, 1:22:45 PM CST, Gregory DeClue <gregdeclue@MAILMT.COM> wrote:


I neglected to provide any examples of this part.

Third, if there’s anyone you’re unsure about, explore the record, including recordings, of how they respond when asked whether they support the general outline included in The Green New Deal.  


Here you go:









Greg



On Feb 27, 2019, at 3:43 PM, Gregory DeClue <gregdeclue@mailmt.com> wrote:



It is for me, Steve.



I have three broad suggestions for operationalizing it.


One is my agreement with how Jim Hightower phrases it:  Everybody’s better off when everybody’s better off.  (Would this person’s policies tend to increase, or decrease, income inequality and wealth inequality.  We don’t have to all be equal, of course, but the more disparity there is the less stable I expect the country to be.)



A second is:  We only have one planet.  I would not support any politician whose policies would not include very ambitious plans to drastically change policies and practices that are on track to alter this planet from the type of planet that humans and other living creatures have adapted to thrive on.  



Third, if there’s anyone you’re unsure about, explore the record, including recordings, of how they respond when asked whether they support the general outline included in The Green New Deal.  



Obviously, different people will value different things.  Some people may prefer greater, rather than lesser, disparity in income and wealth.  And some people don’t care whether the planet degrades over the coming decades and centuries.  But for those who, like me, want people and the planet to thrive over the coming decades and centuries, it’s really not hard to decide which politicians are with us and which are not.



Best,

Greg



Gregory DeClue, Ph.D., ABPP (forensic)
16443 Winburn Place
Sarasota, FL  34240-9228
phone 941-951-6674
gregdeclue@me.com
http://gregdeclue.myakkatech.com



On Feb 27, 2019, at 2:28 PM, Stephen Bloomfield <drstevebloomfield@GMAIL.COM> wrote:




On Mar 2, 2019, at 6:01 PM, John Auerbach <
00000224c9c1aebb-dmarc-request@lists.apapractice.org> wrote:
I think I will note that there might be some limitations to Adam Smith’s “invisible hand.”  Mind you, I have never read The Wealth of Nations, and indeed very few people have, even economists, because it is a sprawling, 800-page work, so I can have any opinion I like.  Still, it is unlikely that a world of entirely self-interested persons will necessarily or even most of the time produce the best possible outcome.  It would be perverse, for example, to claim that all of us were in a helping profession solely for the money.  Mind you, I am not saying that no self-interest is involved, otherwise we would not be seeking payment for our work, but (a) there are far more lucrative employments in the universe and (b) it starts to stretch the concept of “self-interest” beyond all recognition to say that the only or main reason any of us desire to help others is that so doing serves our individual interests (e.g., for recognition by others, for self-approval, etc.).  Additionally, there are numerous examples in nature of nonhuman animals engaging altruistic behavior that would not be predicted by simple self-interest theories (e.g., inclusive fitness, reciprocal altruism).  Mainly, however, my view is shaped by the great theorists Peter and Gordon (actually, by John and Paul, who were the writers of the song), who famously said, “I don’t care what they say/I won’t stay in a world without love.”  Okay, maybe it’s not my most rigorous comment, but I think a world governed only by self-interest and not also by connections to others is ultimately a world of either schizoid isolation or unbridled rapacity.  Either way, much though I am, or can be, as self-interested as the next person is, I am not interested in political candidates who do not share my values of justice, equality, connection to others, and protection of the only planet that has so far proved capable of being our home.  I am not saying that I do not also value individual freedom, or liberty, because I most assuredly do; I am just saying that my freedom, liberty, and personhood exist in the context of those things for everyone else and, per Hegel, cannot exist unless recognized by everyone else.


On Mar 1, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Damon LaBarbera <00000773cca468bb-dmarc-request@LISTS.APAPRACTICE.ORG> wrote:

A contrary view would be like that of Adam Smith's in Wealth Of Nations. Individuals pursuing self interest create growth, efficiency, and utility.  This is Smith's "invisible hand". "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."  

From that view, better to vote for a candidate narrowly supportive of our most valued plank, rather than try to benevolently vote for a candidate for the greater good. In the economy of ideas, we will be more efficient at achieving our goals. 

On Friday, March 1, 2019, 1:22:45 PM CST, Gregory DeClue <gregdeclue@MAILMT.COM> wrote:


I neglected to provide any examples of this part.

Third, if there’s anyone you’re unsure about, explore the record, including recordings, of how they respond when asked whether they support the general outline included in The Green New Deal.  

Here you go:



Greg


On Feb 27, 2019, at 3:43 PM, Gregory DeClue <gregdeclue@mailmt.com> wrote:

It is for me, Steve.

I have three broad suggestions for operationalizing it.

One is my agreement with how Jim Hightower phrases it:  Everybody’s better off when everybody’s better off.  (Would this person’s policies tend to increase, or decrease, income inequality and wealth inequality.  We don’t have to all be equal, of course, but the more disparity there is the less stable I expect the country to be.)

A second is:  We only have one planet.  I would not support any politician whose policies would not include very ambitious plans to drastically change policies and practices that are on track to alter this planet from the type of planet that humans and other living creatures have adapted to thrive on.  

Third, if there’s anyone you’re unsure about, explore the record, including recordings, of how they respond when asked whether they support the general outline included in The Green New Deal.  

Obviously, different people will value different things.  Some people may prefer greater, rather than lesser, disparity in income and wealth.  And some people don’t care whether the planet degrades over the coming decades and centuries.  But for those who, like me, want people and the planet to thrive over the coming decades and centuries, it’s really not hard to decide which politicians are with us and which are not.

Best,
Greg